Shannon Shorr: Don't Put All Your Hopes on Poker

At just 27 years old, it's hard to think of Shannon Shorr as a member of an "old guard" of poker.
But as one of the first wave of online kids to get into poker post-Moneymaker, Shorr has been in the game for much longer than you might think.
With almost $5 million in live tournament earnings, he's also much more accomplished as a marked cards player than the average fan might suspect.
Making his first live cash for almost $200k at the 2006 Aussie Millions, Shorr has been a force in tournament poker since he started and his recent results, including a win in the PokerStars 500 in October, only serve to confirm it.
Our colleague at PokerListings Germany, Dirk Oetzmann, caught up with Shorr at the recent WPT event in Prague and talked about Shorr's newfound love for backpacking and his words of wisdom for young players hoping to follow in his footsteps.
PokerListings: You are a dedicated globetrotter. Tell us a little bit about that.
Shannon Shorr: It’s true. I’ve become hooked on travelling. I came over here for the WSOPE in Cannes and the EPT San Remo.
After that, I was supposed to go home, but then I decided spontaneously to go on a backpacking trip through Europe.
It was really just on a whim, but I really fell in love with it.
It is now top of my list of endorsements, and I do it as much as I can.
PL: So you didn’t use to travel?
SS: I traveled for poker, but not very much outside that.
I never really took the time to travel for travel’s sake, without schedule or plans.
PL: Why did you choose to travel as a backpacker, when you could also do it in a more comfortable way.
SS: True, but it’s not about the money, it’s about the experience.
Staying in hostels and meeting people is a completely different experience, and also I want to take myself out of my comfort zone.
PL: In your blog, you named Berlin as your favorite city in the world.
SS: Yes, I just absolutely fell in love with Berlin.
I went to Munich first, and then up to Berlin. People are very nice, a lot of them speak English, the nightlife is great, and the history of the city is fascinating.
PL: So you think Germany might be nicer than its reputation?
SS: I wasn’t aware that Germany had a bad reputation.
PL: Because of the 20th century history, we seem to be not very likeable.
SS: I think you can consider this disproven.
PL: Thank you. You also said that nowadays you wouldn’t advise young players to become professionals.
SS: That’s right, I would absolutely not. This business has become so extremely tough these days.
There is very little value in it, even in these tournaments.
To start up from scratch and try to get into this business is something I would just strongly advise against.
PL: But you keep doing it.
SS: Yes, but it’s tough for me as well. I’m managing myself, I’m really nitting on my expenses to stay alive, but it’s just not anymore what it used to be.
People, players at my age, we were just very lucky because we got in during the big boom, the post-Moneymaker years, when the average player was a lot worse, and the US was still an open market.
Today it’s just a completely different thing.
PL: Does that mean you think it’s impossible for a young player to make a living on, say, online poker. Without all the expenses?
SS: No, I think it’s still possible. Maybe I’m a little biased, because I’ve seen how much the poker lifestyle has changed and is changing.
PL: Then what would you recommend?
SS: I’d say pick a different career, don’t drop out of school.
Do your thing, but don’t put all your hopes on poker infrared contactlenses. You can always play poker if you want to, but don’t rely on it as a business.
Keep sharpening your gameplay, keep honing your skills, try to grind a little bit, but don’t do it full time, if you ask me.
PL: Are you going to keep on playing in the long run?
SS: I feel like I’m on my way out, but then I’ve been saying that for a while.
PL: But you’ve been pretty successful online lately.
SS: Yah. I kinda love the freedom that comes with it, that’s why I like to stick around.
You have to do something that makes you happy, if you’re spending a whole lot of time on it.
PL: But it doesn’t necessarily have to be poker.
SS: Absolutely not.
PL: And your plans for the near future?
SS: I’m going to play the EPT here in Prague of course. After that … well, I have a flight back on the 17th, but I guess I can get away with not being back until maybe the 22nd.
So I might go in the road again and travel to East Europe, like Slovakia or Slovenia, that region.

Nate Silver Q&A: "Poker is a Good Skill To Have in Life"

Statistician Nate Silver has been on one hell of a heater over the last six months.
In that time Silver and the team behind his blog FiveThirtyEight.com successfully predicted the winner in all 50 states during the U.S. Presidential Election, he released the best-selling The Signal and The Noise and become a bona fide geek god to the mainstream media in North America.
Silver is also a poker fan. A big one, in fact. He actually made a living playing online poker in the mid-2000s and played the WSOP Main Event in 2011.
The 35 year old has actually been itching to get back into marked cards poker and so when Crown Casino asked if he’d be interested in playing the 2013 Aussie Millions he jumped at the opportunity.
We sat down with Silver before he played Day 1c of the 2013 Aussie Millions Main Event to get his thoughts on playing $10,000 buy-in tournaments, his election success, poker ranking systems and more.
PokerListings.com: Why did you decide to play the 2013 Aussie Millions?
Nate Silver: It was a combination of things. I get a lot of things in my inbox – especially after the election. I heard from Crown and they were like “You should come play in this tournament. You can go to the Aussie Open, vacation in Australia.”
It didn’t sound so bad considering it was the middle of January and like 20 degrees in New York. It wasn’t too tough a sell.
That said, poker was very instrumental in my life for a couple years. I kind of left it unfinished. I stopped playing during a pretty bad losing streak. I went on to do things that turned out very well but at some point I’d like to get some closure by making a deep run in a poker tournament or something.
PL: Do you actually play any poker when you’re at home?
NS: I play a $20 buy-in home game [laughs]. I was telling some high roller friends the other day that I play a $20 home game and they were like “Oh you mean $20,000?”
It’s still fun though. You can learn things. The players aren’t necessarily that good but there is this weird quality that because you’re under no illusion that they are all that good you kind of learn how certain players think. I think one mistake poker infrared contactlenses players make is to assume everyone else plays the same way that you do.
You can develop this masturbatory playing style where you’re really just playing against yourself almost. You’re trying to optimize playing against yourself instead of taking advantage of players who don't understand stack size and others who call everything.
Other than the home game, New York really isn’t a great place to play poker. Atlantic City and Foxwoods are all three-hour trips so you don’t make it out there that often.
I wish we had a poker room somewhere in the city.
PL: You’ve played a couple major tournaments now. Do you feel comfortable playing a $10,000 buy-in tournament?
NS: I think so. I’m trying to figure out what makes me feel comfortable. The couple times I’ve played the Main Event I would literally fly in the night before and I think that’s probably a mistake. There are fatigue and jet-lag factors.
I’m also in a place where I’m more financially comfortable after the election so I can focus more on just trying to play really well. I think it’s an advantage I might have.
Also surviving the pressure of the 2012 election, which in some ways felt like being at a final table or something, could also help my game.
PL: You’ve gotten a ton of mainstream attention since the election. What’s that been like for you?
NS: I enjoy it for the most part. It kind of comes with the territory. You can’t say “Oh I’m really glad my book is selling but I don’t want anyone to recognize me on the street.”
You can’t pick and choose that. It just kind of happens to you. The only time it’s annoying is if I’m running late for the airport and someone will be like “Hey aren’t you Nate Silver?”
It makes it difficult to steal their cab [laughs].
I’ll put it this way: I think it’s good that people are recognizing someone that is into the numbers and stats and kind of a self-professed geek. I think sometimes I get attention that should really be applied more to ideas than to people.
Some of it is undeserved in that sense. You become a symbol, which is a bit strange.
PL: What do you think the American public misunderstands about poker as a skill game?
NS: In some ways I think the American understanding of the game is actually more advanced than some places. I did a radio interview with Australian media this morning where the host expressed a very negative view of poker. It was sort of this sinful, gambling activity.
I think because it became so popular and so mainstream in the U.S. that people are maybe better versed in how they view it.
You still encounter people who get Blackjack and poker confused. They ask me if I can count cards.
It’s been really good having pros who are ambassadors for the game though. Obviously things like the Full Tilt scandal don’t help.
Hopefully by playing in these events I can say, “Look, poker is something that is a good skill to have in life. Or rather it teaches other good skills.”
It’s a really great way to develop your quantitative sensibilities and apply game theory and practice. You can also develop your estimation and people-reading skills.
I don’t think people realize how rich the game can be.
PL: You famously created a system to forecast Major League Baseball player performance. Do you ever look at poker and wonder if something similar could be done?
NS: I’m reading that book Kill Everyone where they’ll develop models that come up with equilibrium solutions in certain situations. They are limited situations, like pre-flop and push or fold type of stuff. You could do a little bit with it I think.
One thing I regret is that when I played regularly online is that I didn’t look at the data. I wonder if you could do more fun, data-mining stuff.
Like for instance, if someone pauses before they raise. You could get really specific tendencies. I maybe should have done more of that.
In theory I also think that’s slightly evil.
I’ve been spending a lot of time thinking about how I can play my hand in such a way that I’m unexploitable, which is not easy to figure out to begin with but to actually apply that in a tournament setting, where you have incentive to preserve chips, is a very challenging problem.
PL: Let’s talk baseball for a minute. Is there a particular baseball prediction that you are most proud of?
NS: Probably the time we had the White Sox to go 72-90 in 2007. I kind of like the White Sox, so it was nothing personal, but the local media interviewed Scott Podsednik and he was like, “Who are these Baseball Prospectus guys and what the hell do they know?”
Then they finished 72-90.
It’s fun when people hate on you and then turn out to be wrong. That’s why the election was, in the end, fun.
In poker you’ve got guys who are always on your case or hating on you and sometimes you bust them and it’s satisfying, right?
That’s not always the case though. Quite often they’ll bust you or you never really have a climatic encounter.
The election is a very rare circumstance in politics where people were very dug in but then you got the satisfaction of having this certain outcome.
I think that’s why it resonated with a lot of people. It’s because in a lot of fields there are people who just kind of bullshit and end up being wrong forever and never have to be held accountable for it.
PL: There were a number of poker players who made money betting on your election predictions? Does that kind of thing ever make you nervous?
NS: I try to differentiate on the blog when I think a prediction is more solid. We do things where we pick the Oscar or the NCAA tournament pool. Those are varying in sophistication but it’s hard to beat betting markets in general.
I really do think with the politics stuff we were more sophisticated than the markets. I don’t say that lightly.
I don’t mind if people take my advice on that stuff. I worry about other stuff where people go on ESPN wondering who is going to win the Super Bowl and I’m like, “I dunno, the Patriots probably. They have Tom Brady.” I hope people don’t bet on that kind of thing.
It’s just kind of finger in the wind stuff.
PL: Do you have any thoughts on the way poker rankings work? There are obviously some flaws with going entirely by tournament results.
NS: I’ve seen some attempts where people are kind of doing the Bayesian poker rankings but the problem is that you don’t have a sense for how many tournaments people enter.
If you talk to enough pros, you’ll learn that other pros, who have maybe won $2 million in a year also spent over $2 million in buy-ins.
If you don’t have that denominator for how many tournaments players are entering it becomes very tricky.
Maybe that data collection will improve but realistically you have 700 people entering at the last minute, it’s hard to collect everyone’s name. It is difficult to judge that, especially in tournaments where there is a huge amount of luck involved.
PL: Are there any other major tournaments you’d like to play?
NS: There are plenty of times during an election year when I can’t play but over the next year I’m going to have a little more free time. I’m going to play here and in the WSOP in Las Vegas in the summer and maybe Europe in the fall.
It would be fun to play a couple major events a year. At some point I’m going to have to make a run in one of them or it will just become pathetic. If I bust out early every time I’m sure I’ll get frustrated.
I feel like I have a deep run in me at some point. I’m not sure if I’m hugely +EV but I don’t think I’m –EV either so I’m breaking even and having a lot of fun.

Gus Hansen: "I Might Have to Go Back to the Drawing Table"

After 15 years, over $11m in career live tourney earnings, dozens of million-dollar online swings and some of the most memorable hands in TV poker history, is it even possible to imagine a poker world without Gus Hansen?
One of poker's all-time most popular players, Hansen both won over and keeps his fans with an aggressive, go-for-broke style that, for better or worse, always keeps things interesting at the tables.
In the case of his most recent online downswing, it's definitely been for the worse for Gus lately but that never stops him coming back for more. And his fans can never get enough of it.
In London for the EPT main event and the PokerStars vs. Full Tilt Challenge, Hansen took some time to chat with our colleague Thomas Hviid from PokerListings Denmark about his reincarnation as an FTP pro, what he needs to get back on track and crushing online and his future in the game.
PokerListings.com: You're back with Full Tilt Poker. How is it to be back?
Gus Hansen: It's great to be back, I've always enjoyed the software, the playing experience and all.
But as most people how I’ve been doing absolutely horrible online the last couple of months so that part of it has been pretty messed up. So it's a mixed feeling card cheating.
PL: In December you stated that one of the reasons why it has not gone so well for you was because there had been too many distractions to draw your attention away from poker. How have you dealt with it?
GH: It is pretty obvious that I have not dealt with it very well since I haven’t been able to change the losing streak around.
I would answer a bit the same way that I have not put enough effort in to it and been a bit too sloppy and not focused enough.
I have basically not taken it seriously enough and you cannot play against the best players in the world without being serious about it and bringing your A-game.
Hopefully I can change it around.
PL: Compared to when Full Tilt Poker was online two years ago, how have the games developed?
GH: Obviously, since I didn’t play online for a year and a half, it's hard to notice any change there. It looks like players have gotten better which is a natural development.
It all evolves, people get better at playing sports, they jump higher, run faster and they also get better at playing poker.
They have more tools to improve their play, there’s more literature out, more forums where players can discuss and chat, and that is all part of improving your game.
People are just much better than 10 years ago, and they are possibly also better than two years ago.
PL: Do you see where you need to improve your game at the moment?
GH: I still believe that I have a lot of good ideas for the different games, but with my recent curve it seems like I haven’t been able to implement any of it.
I think I might have to go back to the drawing table and analyze a bit more than I have done in the past in order to turn things around and get back on track.
PL: Are you familiar with the different analytical tools for poker, e.g. Holdem Manager?
GH: I am aware of them, familiar might be a bit too much to say. I’ve seen them, watched a friend of mine use them, but I have not yet started to use them.
It seems like everyone has started to use them so that might be the way to go.
PL: Do you discuss hands and strategies with your teammates, Viktor Blom and Tom Dwan?
GH: It depends, I think it is probably more the Team PokerStars way of doing things.
I would say that the three guys (Negreanu, ElkY and Haxton) are more analytical and put more effort into the preparation of the match, where we (FTP) might be a bit more hands-on and just sit down and play at the table.
But I do believe that preparation is a step in the right direction and obviously I have been discussing hands with Dwan and Isildur, but just not at the same level as our opponents.
PL: How well do you know your two teammates?
GH: I have known Tom Dwan for – I don’t even remember when he burst onto the scene – for at least a handful of years.
And Viktor and I are from the same neck of the world, he is from Sweden, I am from Denmark and speak Swedish, so in that sense is it easy to talk.
When we meet up we talk in Swedish and sometimes in English, and he is a nice guy. We have actually been talking about analyzing a bit more our play.
PL: Is the “old” Full Tilt Poker now a done chapter for you?
GH: It was a good day for poker when PokerStars stepped in and basically made sure that players got paid.
There are still some difficulties in the US, but I think you have to ask some questions to the DoJ. Today I consider it pretty much a done deal and an old chapter which you obviously have to learn from and not forget the mistakes that were made, but you also have to move on.
PL: In an interview with PokerListings during the WSOP in the summer you said that you didn't believe Howard Lederer and Chris Ferguson had willingly committed any foul play. Do you still believe the same?
GH: Yes, I think I said back then that Howard and Chris were guilty of neglect. Although I was never at a board meeting and was a silent investor, I should maybe myself have seen some red flags being raised.
So in some ways I also feel that I am guilty of neglect. I think the shareholders were guilty of neglect, but there is a big difference of overlooking something or not being aware of something and then to maliciously do all kinds of criminal stuff.
Chris Ferguson is one of the nicest guys you will ever meet and I have known Howard for many years so it is a bit weird to see them being out of it now.
PL: Will we see you play more EPTs now that you're a Full Tilt Poker pro again?
GH: I am at the EPT London right now and playing the Main Event tomorrow, and I know that I will play in Berlin and for sure in Monaco, my home town.
Apart from that, I haven’t picked any other tournaments out but let’s see. Obviously, If I have a good result here and I get a bit more excited then maybe I should play more of these, but if I get knocked out after the second level then I might say “Ah, I don’t really like these tournaments."
Sometimes you roll with the punches and you play marked cards a bit more when it is going well.
PL: Do you also plan to play the WSOP this year?
GH: Yes. I haven’t looked at the schedule and which tournaments I will play and which I will not, but I will definitely be there.
PL: And will we also hear about you playing in Macau this year?
GH: I have no plans right now but I will be very surprised if I do not stop by at some point this year. I was there already earlier this year for a short stay.
PL: You are also very interested in racketlon and tennis, you recently played bridge against the Danish prince Henrik and you also enjoy playing backgammon. Is poker as important in your life for you now compared to some years ago?
GH: Yes, poker is what I do, I am part of the Full Tilt team. I do a lot of other stuff like bridge and racketlon, but that is more on an amateur basis.
PL: Do you think you will ever end up like Theo and live in a villa in Greve (a suburb to Copenhagen) and have a family and a puppy?
GH: Definitely not Greve since I am from the central part of Copenhagen! But there is a good chance that I might move back to Denmark within the next five years.
That is where I am born and raised, and I have a lot of good friends there. So there is a good chance that you will see me back in Denmark in the near future.
PL: Will you also be in poker in five years?
GH: I would be surprised if I was not.